Speed Cameras 'Mechanism for Generating Revenue,' Opponent Says
Seehusen, Americans for Prosperity, question effectiveness of speed camera program.
Joe Seehusen, co-chair of the county chapter of Americans for Prosperity, said there is no evidence speed cameras "are doing any good for the community."
Courtesy Joe Seehusen
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Baltimore County's speed camera program is nothing but a government money grab and its record of improving safety is questionable, according to Joe Seehusen, co-chairman of the county chapter of Americans for Prosperity.
Americans for Prosperity, a group that advocates for smaller government, opposed speed cameras in the county when they were first proposed in 2009.
Tom Quirk, a Democratic councilman who represents the 1st District including Arbutus and Catonsville, said he will introduce a bill Jan. 3 allowing the county to install more speed cameras around the county.
"We took a pretty strong stand, " Seehusen said. "We thought it was simply a mechanism for generating revenue for the county. That feeling has not changed."
It is not immediately known how much money has been generated by the cameras, which issue $40 citations to motorists driving more than 12 mph over the posted speed limit in 15 designated school zones around the county.
The council approved the program in Sept. 2009. At the time, the county expected to spend $2.2 million on the program. The cameras were expected to raise $1.1 million in the first 5 months after all the cameras became operational.
Earlier this month, Police Chief Jim Johnson said speed camera citations are down 50 percent since the beginning of the program.
"We've shown that it was designed to improve safety in and around our school zones," Johnson told the County Council during his confirmation hearing on Dec. 14.
But Seehusen said he's not convinced the program improves safety.
"You really have to be able to empirically prove that it makes a community more walkable or bike-able otherwise it's just words," Seehusen said. "There's no evidence (the cameras) are doing any good for the community."
Seehusen said he and his group continue to advocate for increasing police presence in school zones where speeding is an issue.
Do you believe speed cameras have improved pedestrian safety in school zones in Baltimore County? Would you want one in your neighborhood?
Tell us in the comments.
Sean Tully
6:53 pm on Tuesday, December 28, 2010
What Seehusen is arguing is that nothing will stop law breakers. Well, if that's the case, why have any laws on the books at all?
Buzz Beeler
1:45 pm on Wednesday, February 2, 2011
Sean, this will give both sides some pause for concern.
http://bonehead.lerman.biz/php/FirebirdsWithoutWings.php
Despite the pros or cons, whether its designed for money or safety, the fact is we as a community need both.
Imagine the outcry after a major snow fall, or just a few flakes, no pun intended, and the streets were not plowed. You call the police and no one shows up. You need an EMT and no one answers the phone.
Do we want a government like the city where everything is broke?
The government runs on money, like everything else and if we manage it correctly, people stop speeding then we won't need the cameras that have generated all of this passion.
We can save both for other occasions.
MARC Maschal
8:14 pm on Tuesday, December 28, 2010
TOTAL MONEY GRAB.THE BILL FOR THE SPEED CAMERAS WAS INITIALLY VOTED DOWN LAST YEAR BUT IT WAS BROUGHT BACK AND PUSHED THROUGH BY A FEW AT THE VERY END OF THE SESSION.PEOPLE CONTACT YOUR REPRESENTATIVE AND TELL THEM TO VOTE THIS DOWN!
Photoradarscam
8:18 pm on Tuesday, December 28, 2010
"We've shown that it was designed to improve safety in and around our school zones," --- Really? Where are the engineering studies? I know that they NEVER hired any traffic engineering studies of the locations where they put cameras. You have a plumbing problem, you call a licensed plumber. You have a traffic safety problem, you call a traffic engineer, not a POLITICIAN or Policeman!
Show us the accident rates BEFORE and AFTER the cameras, please... where's the data?
Jackie
6:30 am on Wednesday, December 29, 2010
As much as I agree that speed cameras are a money grabber, an effort has to be made to stop "speed racers" in our community. We can argue whether or not speed cameras are needed until we're all blue, but the fact remains our kids can't walk to and from school safely; That's a problem!
Besides, if one isn't speeding in the first place, why should one have a concern as to how many speed cameras there are? In my opinion safety is a much greater factor.
Scott Sewell
7:12 am on Wednesday, December 29, 2010
Right on Jackie!
Bruce Robinson
8:20 am on Wednesday, December 29, 2010
@Jackie & Scott - Government imposes taxes on citizens to accomplish tasks for those citizens, consistent with two constitutions and a charter.
Our representatives thought it would be a good investment to spend $2.2M with a projected return of $1.1M and an unspecified increase in safety that would be demonstrated by a reduction in crashes and injuries.
There is no report on the real income. There is no report on crashes and injuries. There is a report that there are fewer tickets than what was projected. This equates to not knowing whether this has been an effective use of our money, to not knowing if the basis for acting were sound, to knowing nothing more than the vendor (non-competitive bidder) is making money off of our investment.
There are myriad factors influencing the speed at which vehicles are operated. There are many reasons for exceeding and for not achieving the posted limits. This experiment did not have controls, has not produced data that demonstrates effectiveness, and is not even anecdotally effective. Adding more cameras at increased costs that are not demonstrably effective is reason enough to ask the council to rethink this course of action.
Remember, it is in the beginning of a term that politicians suggest revenue enhancers under the theory that the taxpayers will forget by year four. The last class of councilman were not concerned with the impact of taking money from your pocket because all but two of them were not seeking re-election.
George Brookhart
8:08 am on Wednesday, December 29, 2010
It seems that we want the government to step up and fix all of our problems in society but we don't want them to do anything that will restrict us personally. Citizens in the Catonsville area have complained about drivers speeding throught their neighborhoods and school districts and the want and expext the county to do something about it, speed bumps, patrol cars to sit for 6-8 hours waiting for speeders, traffic calming devices such as islands that force people to slow down and yes "speed camera's". No matter which one the county recommends people object to and God knows asking people to just slow down won't work because we are all in too big of a hurry.
I for one don't have a problem with speed camera's. If they are generating too much money that must mean they are doing their job and catching the speeders. If you don't like speed camera's then don't speed.
Tom
9:28 am on Wednesday, December 29, 2010
Jackie,
"Besides, if one isn't speeding in the first place, why should one have a concern as to how many speed cameras there are?"
Tell that to the innocent people who get tickets. I got one on I-95 for going 67mph (which is kind of funny because that is exactly the tripper point), the problem is that my cruise control was set to 57mph, my GPS showed 57mph, and the mobile speed sign was also showing 58mph, and I got a ticket anyway.
Do these cameras work, yes. Do these cameras always worked correctly, NO. Something simple as a lane change confuses the system and a wrong ticket can be given. I have spent hundreds of hours and last few months researching the WorkZone speed camera system and let me tell you, they don't always work correctly. The operators manual is considered "Industrial Trade Secret", because they don't want the public to know a lot of things about these.
One more interesting facts is that these WorkZone speed device, stops tracking the vehicle once a speed reading is taken, the problem is that the photo isn't taken until later, sometime way later. In some cases it is possible for the vehicle to travel around 80 feet which can be as much as 6 car lengths, THE SYSTEM DOESN'T KNOW IF TOOK A PHOTO OF THE CORRECT CAR. Therefore, it can and
sometimes does give a ticket to the wrong car/driver.
Roxane
9:33 am on Wednesday, December 29, 2010
The speed zone cameras on the beltway, in the white Jeep Liberty, are even used in the middle of the night when there are no lights on in the work zone -WHICH MEANS NO ONE IS WORKING!!!! Not a money grab? PUHLEEZE
Tom
2:45 pm on Wednesday, December 29, 2010
Teresa,
The law allows for speed monitoring even when no workers are present, the speed limit is also there to keep you, the driver, safer. Not just the works. I don't have a problem with that.
However, what I have a problem with is that these PHOTO CAMERA devices aren't always working correctly and too many innocent people are getting tickets.....
Stan Modjesky
3:36 pm on Wednesday, December 29, 2010
What makes the whole work-zone camera setup look fishy is the fact that the posted speed is lowered by a mere 5 mph in the work zones that are photo enforced. The probability of a worker being injured by a car moving at 50 mph is hardly different from the probability of injury at 55 mph. Traveling in other states I have seen speed limits more drastically reduced in work areas, and that makes sense regardless how it is enforced.
Adam E. Paul, Sr.
10:24 am on Thursday, December 30, 2010
As a retired Baltimore County police officer I totally agree with the concept of speed cameras. If motorist would drive the speed limits there would be no problem with having speed cameras. However, everybody has got to be in a hurry and exceed the posted speed limits. When the speed goes down so does the incident of accidents. It is a safety issue not a means of raising revednue. If you want to speed then you must pay the price for your foolishness.
Adam Paul, Capt. Ret. BCPD
Tom
10:54 am on Thursday, December 30, 2010
Adam,
I would agree with you but since thousands of tickets are issued to innocent people I can't..
Just in Tacoma , Washing a total of 8000 tickets were improperly issued between December 2, 2009 and March 9, 2010.....(that is only a few months) And that just the ones that someone eventually caught ... There are however still 10,000's that are never noticed.................
How about this headline from a local newspaper, "Baltimore City Speed Camera Issues Hundreds of Tickets In Error".. How about this one, "Cameras Lied 24,000 Times" (In Mont. County) That is 24,868 speed camera errors which were discovered, but there is no way to know how many others actually went out and the drivers simply assumed that "pictures don't lie".
Do you want me to continue. This is just for Maryland. Let's put it this way, no system is 100% accurate, and no system always works correctly. So if Baltimore County issued over 300,000 tickets last year, and there is only a chance of 5% error rate. That is 15,000 innocent people got tickets.
Stan Modjesky
11:14 am on Thursday, December 30, 2010
Mr./Captain Paul, it is entirely possible to be traveling at the posted speed limit, and still be going too fast for safety under the road surface, lighting and traffic conditions at that particular moment. A judgment about that can be made only by a flesh-and-blood person, not a mechanical device.
Scott Sewell
6:54 pm on Thursday, December 30, 2010
Amen Adam!
Tom
7:03 pm on Thursday, December 30, 2010
"It is a safety issue not a means of raising revednue."
Then how about we donate the $40 to local schools or something like that directly instead of the government........ They would never allow that, one can dream though....
Not raising revenue ? Then why did Baltimore City add $1.5 million into their budget even before speed cameras where every approved by the State?
Tom
8:09 pm on Sunday, January 2, 2011
To ALL:
I just received a tip from a German lawyer friend of mine, that just last month - Dec of 2010, after expert analysis a report was published in Germany (home of the speed camera we use in the Workzone and school zones in most of Maryland) that addressed the accuracy and reliability issues with the system.
It confirms that there is a problem with the way this system measures speed and then takes the photos. According to the exert report, the system on many occasions issued the ticket to the wrong vehicle. Also according to the report the manuf. Vitronics is issuing a software update that will address this issue, but not completely.
However, that means that for at least one year now, the speed cameras have been giving tickets to the wrong people.
Here is a link to the report, however, it is in German.
http://www.geblitzt-was-tun.de/images/stories/dokumente/fehlmessungen-mit-poliscan-speed-roland-bladt-2010.pdf
BTW, this issue was suspected before and now has been proven at least a couple of times with indep. tests.
Michael
8:31 pm on Thursday, January 6, 2011
The white jeep on the beltway that takes pictures in the middle of the night and early in the morning when there is not a worker in sight is actually a safety hazzard and will cause fatalities.The bright strobe like flashes leaves spots in your vision as your driving inches away from the jersey wall in oncomming traffic at the posted speed of 50 mph with tractor trailer in the lane to your right. Not to much room for error!!Lets keep the law abiding drivers safe to.TURN THEM OFF AFTER DUSK AND BACK ON AT DAWN. Or pay for the technology to take pictures witout a flash.
JK
7:46 pm on Friday, January 7, 2011
I feel sorry for all the Do-Gooders* using D&E (Defensive & Evasive) excuses** to justify one of the biggest scams foisted on the people. Remember the saying "Been there, Done that." How many of the concerned citizens writing in are very safe, law-abiding drivers****, who have used the same rhetoric on others, then have gotten ticketed? Many of the very same people justifying the Scam Cam Program (SCP) will have it happen to them: it's in the numbers. Will they meekly pay, continuing their justifications, believing the propaganda that the streets are safer and that they are now law-breaking criminals, or is getting stung after having put in a great amount of TLC into their driving, and probably actually driving better than the vast majority, going to wake them up and make them take a stand and speak out?
*Well-intentioned people who need to do their homework. Start with "StopBigBrother.org"
**Saying: "Ignorance***is the worst form of violence?" Historically as well as in this Scam, making excuses allows the Dictator-type as well as Scam Artists to thrive.
***In the sense of "unknowing", not "rude"
****For those who will use solely a Scam Cam as "proof" that the individual therefore "can't" be safe and law-abiding, please wake-up, do your homework and get ALL (or, at least, a whole lot more) of your facts together! If you spend enough time investigating, you will find that accident rates at SC locations are up.
JK
2:28 pm on Friday, March 11, 2011
First of all, I don't condone true speeding and reckless driving. However, how the Scam Cam Program (SCP) is implemented is undoubtedly, according to anyone with common sense, logic and ethics, a crime against the people. Unless someone's speed is grossly exorbitant or reckless, the overall situation should be taken into account. The perpetrators, both politicians and the providing companies, are basically "Playing the Numbers." Even my wife, with whom the Do-Gooders* (DGs) would be proud to drive, got a ticket. She said the same uneducated rhetoric** before she got one, and she is extremely safe and vigilant. I spoke with a Military officer who is a very upstanding, law-abiding person who said he got a surprise in the mail because he thought he was doing everything right. Both put forth great effort to do what was right. So I say to the DGs who speak in favor of the SCP: "It's in the Numbers." Eventually SOME of you will get zapped too. To those who don't, I wonder how truly safe*** you are? Do you pay more attention to the Scam Cams or to the traffic and pedestrians on the road?
*Well-intentioned bumblers
** E.g.: You "simply" shouldn't speed, You "chose" to speed
*** DGs, if you do your homework you will find out that 1.)for most Scam Cams there has been no change in the safety record at their location (except that it generated revenue) and 2.)last I read, where there was a change at Scam Cam locations, there was a 169% overall INCREASE in accidents (I saw three).