Dundalk Rally to Save Government Center, Eastwood is Saturday

From noon to 2 p.m., residents will gather at Merritt Boulevard and Wise Avenue in support of keeping the buildings open.

Community residents hoping to save the North Point Government Center and Eastwood Elementary Magnet School will hold a rally Saturday morning.

Any resident wishing to join the gathering is encouraged to make a sign and bring it to wave at the corner of Merritt Boulevard and Wise Avenue from noon to 2 p.m.

The rally was announced Jan. 12 at a meeting held by the newly organized Dundalk United, a community group created to present a unified voice concerning recent county decisions regarding the two Dundalk properties.

"Presenting a united front to the county government and school board (is) important," organizers wrote on the Save the North Point Government Center Facebook page.

Children are encouraged to attend the rally, which will take place on the corner of the government center property and not on streets or a median strip, according to organizers.

More than 1,100 children who attend school and participate in recreation activities at the two sites will be affected if the buildings are closed, organizers said.

Residents are encouraged to arrive at the government center at 11:30 to organize and be ready to rally by noon. Bathrooms will be available. Bring snacks and water if desired.

Other scheduled community meetings:

Thursday, Jan. 17 — follow-up meetings for Eastwood and Norwood Elementary and Holabird Middle parents, 7 p.m. at each respective school

Tuesday, Jan. 22— Eastwood Community Association meeting, 7 p.m., Estwood Elementary cafeteria

Monday, Jan. 28— Board of Education Southeast Advisory Committee, 7 p.m. at Dundalk High School

Tuesday, Feb. 5—Board of Education meeting, Greenwood building in Towson, 6 p.m. (residents who wish to speak on behalf of Eastwood should arrive early to get on the speaker list)

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Jay Fitzgerald January 17, 2013 at 08:44 PM
Exactly!! A. The police department NEEDS to be centrally located with minimal disruption to any residential area. B. The North Point building DOES need to go..overhauling is far more expensive. C. There's NO reason that many of the rec programs cannot be moved to existing schools....problem comes when the schools and Baltimore county refuse them because of housekeeping and supervision issues along with EVERY program having territorial/ego issues. It's redundant and wasteful to have a repeat rec program at every school unless attendance and support are there. Some of these programs can and should be merged to the best attended areas and I know SOMEONE will kick and scream they have to drive little Johnny 1 1/2 miles to get to soccer or football but outlying areas north of us have to travel a heck of a lot farther and learn to carpool. But here's the rub, the politicians won't listen especially when one or two big mouths get on a soap box and try to run the meetings. The flip side is historically 'they've' screwed us over time and time again and the community has a RIGHT to be suspiscous of these guys! By the way..drive past OUR government center...THEY need to be cited for the filthy conditions surrounding it...look at all the trash on the ground from Merritt Blvd all the way around. Merritt Shopping Center on the other hand is looking good next to them...maybe they should move over there!
Laura Quintana January 17, 2013 at 08:50 PM
Is there a link the Patch could provide, please, from the City Council to equip us with the official proposal, budget, timeline, etc. of what is to become of the current building as well as to where the current offices will be moved. Furthermore, what is to become of the current building and/or site, i.e. will it be torn down and sold to a chemical plant and/or chemical waste plant (one version I've heard), will it be torn down and left vacant (another story), will it be renovated one section at a time and all offices remain at the site? Lastly, would our Council Person care to make a statement? If the Government Center is to move elsewhere, what is it's proposed location, officially? When will it open, and will it house the same offices? If the current building is to be razed, will the community be allowed to vote for what type of business/businesses will be built on the site? If not, has the property already been sold/leased, and if so, what is to be the nature of the business? I must say, when hearing of the improvements to the Towson Town Centre, I was wondering, why not Dundalk? Like I stated in an earlier comment, Dundalk is so accesible to D.C., Annapolis, and obviously Baltimore City, as well as being a water-oriented community, which is amazingly desirable everywhere else, why would Dundalk not be courted for new shops and offices, and what has our City Council Person done to encourage them to open in our city.
DON January 17, 2013 at 09:05 PM
Timmy, Jerry, Freddy, Matthew- The community is not buying what you're selling!
Buzz Beeler January 17, 2013 at 09:13 PM
Laura, once the RFB's come in the county will make them public. That in itself does not mean it is a done deal. If the developer is not satisfied with the requirements he must meet, i.e. zoning, replacing rec facilities and building a new center, he could request a PUD be filed to change the current zoning which also includes the - give back - to the citizens. The PUD is the game changer. Basically on page 18 of the RFB lies the key to what goes there and what the developer must provide the community in return. I have already posted links on this issue. Depending on the relationship the developer has with the councilman is what will go there based on the power of the PUD process.
DON January 17, 2013 at 09:15 PM
Jay Fitzgerald- The programs should stay in the community.There are many reasons why they can't be moved to existing schools.
DON January 17, 2013 at 09:24 PM
Buzz Beeler January 17, 2013 at 09:26 PM
Matt you are not providing sound economic reasons for the change. There is no economic development at this point because the RFB's are not in and even if they were there stands a chance of the dreaded PUD process which could be a game changer. I would suggest research like this link. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-07-25/explore/ph-ca-letter-philipsen-0629-20110623_1_pud-process-pud-rules-quality-development Take a look at Fort Howard and the blog I wrote on that one. That also requires a PUD and a heavy burden on the taxpayers. http://dundalk.patch.com/blog_posts/feds-investigate-fort-howard-llc-and-process-behind-project Now on this blog you have the voices of the residents. http://dundalk.patch.com/blog_posts/residents-of-eastwood-to-baltimore-county-just-leave-us-alone Now if you want I could go on about the process and what really happens to the communities.
Steve January 17, 2013 at 09:37 PM
It's not a RFB it's a RFP Request for Proposal. Whoever the successful developer is will have to build playing fields and a new recreational facility elsewhere in the area. That limits things quite a bit. The RFP's are due on April 15th so work will probably start in the late Summer/Fall
Buzz Beeler January 17, 2013 at 09:47 PM
Don, I do not see a developer that would pay for the existing land saddled with the added expense of the current requirements as outlined in the RFP unless as also outlined, the impact of the PUD process. You will notice that troubling words in the document include - encourage and may. This gives wide latitude to the developer and any decision made by the council if a PUD is utilized.
Buzz Beeler January 17, 2013 at 09:52 PM
Steve: http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/budfin/purchasing/bidresults.html
Buzz Beeler January 17, 2013 at 09:56 PM
The county already has the land. Why sell it to a developer when they can rebuild on their own land. As I just blogged the people don't want the precinct in their backyard. People that support this deal seem to forget the details like what's the price tag to refurbish or rebuild and where? The where is not next to your house. The current location for the precinct is perfect. For law enforcement purposes it is centrally located and the county already owns the land and does not impact any community in a negative way. People don't realize that the PUD process is written into this RFB (Request for Bid) proposal. You could wind up with anything based on the whim of the politicians and the PUD process. Again the devil is in the details. Will the sale provide Dundalk with stability in the area of living wage jobs. Retail does not pay those types of wages, manufacturing does. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-07-25/explore/ph-ca-letter-philipsen-0629-20110623_1_pud-process-pud-rules-quality-development We know what we have their now. We own the land. Remember Gray Mannor and that was not a full police facility. Read the current RFB and what the developer is responsible for and that is where the PUD comes into play. What you see is not what you might get. The PUD process favors the developers and the politicians and not the citizens.
Steve January 17, 2013 at 09:58 PM
If you don't know what the difference between a RFB (Request for Bid) and an RFP (Request For Proposal) then there is no hope. RFB's are publicly opened. RFP's are not. They aren't going to put a chemical plant there. That's just somebody floating rumors to scare people. You have to maintain the tower in the middle of the site and there are high voltage lines and a easement on the other side. If you want to get some kind of feel for what is being considered take a look at who requested the proposal documents.
Steve January 17, 2013 at 10:31 PM
....or better yet, go to the pre proposal conference and see who shows up. That will give you a big heads up on what is going to go there.
Earl F Spangler January 17, 2013 at 10:37 PM
A chemical plant? Awesome! I was hope for a White Marsh "Avenue" myself . One in replace of asbestos vested Govt center and another across the street where library is. I am looking for the life of Dundalk not the death like some insane save the world crusade. Dundalk is dying and is a Diamond in the rough. Fight for the life of Dundalk! Tear down Meerut Plaza.....replant the police station. Replant the library. Dare down Bethelem Steel and create jobs by the hundreds! Let Dundalk live and shine like it was suppose to. Please dont let it die. Please. Don't let it die. If not for yourself then your children and they'children.
Earl F Spangler January 17, 2013 at 10:42 PM
I am for your post 100,percent Freddy!
Derek Sillpoy January 17, 2013 at 11:04 PM
Dundalk, you are being played. Put the pieces together. Johnny ZerO tells KK I'll bring you the east side. KK now need to pay up. Where in Dundalk can you put a Rec center and at least some of the fields? Seagrams Who owns Seagram's? Who just bought a bar right next to Seagram's no one came to before and spent tons of money in it even though they already own a successful bar a mile away? Who wouldn't want a restaurant right next to the new community center? Why is the owner of Seagram's never cited for code violations? Why does a relative of the owner of Seagram's buy Tony's down the street? Who woudn't want a carry out joint next to the new community center? This has been planned for years. But look, Johnny ZerO will save our Rec programs in the name of economic development. Dundalk playing right into his hands. The only economic development you will see will be his new vacation home. KK will be there sipping a drink, celebrating because everyone got what they wanted. By the way, the poker machines are back inside Minnick's, er, DONE DEALgan
Steve January 17, 2013 at 11:05 PM
PUDs benefit the residents. You act like it is some evil thing but it's not. they have only been around since the early '70's and the process is very transparent. The community will have ample time to voice their opinion. Once within 3 weeks of the selection of the developer and again before it goes to the ALJ.
Steve January 18, 2013 at 03:49 AM
Well since everybody and his sister knows the "fix" is in there should only be one proposal right?
Derek Sillpoy January 18, 2013 at 11:38 AM
The bidding process is open Steve as you well know. I hope there are many bids and we get new stuff for the community. But just watch what happens. The councilman says North Point won't be sold until as good or better facilities are promised. Where else could you put it? The community is in an uproar over moving the police to Eastern Ave. with everybody wanting the police to be centrally located. Gee isn't that what Vontran floated months ago? A police station and goverment center at Seagrams? Watch what the message will be. Dundalk playing right into their hands. Johnny may sound dumb but he's not. Hey he got rid of Yorkway! But only after his buddy got rich at taxpayer expense. You haven't seen any more slum busting have you? I wonder how much Minnicks will be worth with a police station and a rec center across the street? Give them credit. The cronies have positioned themselves pretty good and we'll get new stuff for once. You don't need tea leaves to put the facts together.
Derek Sillpoy January 18, 2013 at 11:39 AM
The point is, no matter who wins the bid, Seagrams will become part of the deal. Just watch.
Buzz Beeler January 18, 2013 at 03:33 PM
Matt, I know it's RFP, my bad. I wrote it correctly in the blog. I have no agenda, but the politicians and developers do. It's called money, making lots of money. I mentioned those two issues because neither community wants those developments. I said that because of the cost involved to the taxpayers and the negative impact on both areas. In fact the process is so bad on the federal end the GAO is investigating the whole issue. I know for a fact that certain people were approached by two people seeking funding for one project and that promises were made if that funding was made available. I'm working on another blog on some documents I just received on Fort Howard which is no different than what is taking place here. The government is forcing its citizens to placate to the whims of developers and the politicians seeking money. Take a close look at the Whalen case. You need to take a good look at county politics and see the pecking order and who makes out and you won't see the citizens in that mix.
Steve January 18, 2013 at 03:39 PM
Just the usual conspiracy theories..... You don't have one iota of proof that the GAO is investigating anything in BAltimore County.
Rob January 18, 2013 at 10:29 PM
If no one knows who the developer is or what's going to be put there then how can you be upset? The way Dundalk is going now we are headed for losing everything so why not do something? Besides Dundalk is full of democrats and they voted for people with the mentality that you have to pass the bill to know what's in it so let them build the place so we know what it's going to be.
Steve January 18, 2013 at 10:32 PM
In the conspiracy world they already know who is going to develop it and what it is going to be. If that's the case and everybody in Dundalk knows it then there should only be on bidder, right? If the deck is so stacked why would anybody go to the time and expense of developing a proposal?
Derek Sillpoy January 19, 2013 at 01:00 PM
Matthew I never said it would be bad to get rid of Seagrams. Not sure if Sollers and Delvale are good for increased traffic of a goverment center but that's besides the point. The point is that Johnny ZerO doesn't do anything unless it benefits him and his cronies. Even if it is at taxpayers expense.
Ashley Virginia January 23, 2013 at 01:01 AM
Jay the theatre program has many other programs that are a part of it. No other school can house us because they have their own productions. Aslo we have thousands if not millions of lighting and sound equipment. Plus, costumes, set pieces and props.
Ashley Virginia January 23, 2013 at 01:03 AM
Laura, there is no official place. and we have not be told when. and we have been told that it could be anything from housing to industry. I mean seriously people who wants INDUSTRY in the heart of dundalk?!?!?
Ashley Virginia January 23, 2013 at 01:06 AM
HOW DOES A PUD BENEFIT RESIDENTS?!!?!? They want to build indestry then go tear down bethlem steel that is sitting empty! I don't wwant that in my back yard! And no matter how we voice our opinion, Kamenetz does not care! He keeps sending his assistant to deal with everything and all we get is more lies. Kamenetz is a coward.
Ashley Virginia January 23, 2013 at 01:09 AM
This is our building. We are outraged! We were not informed of anything and had to read of it in the paper. Kamenetz is not for us and Johnny has already told us, he will not support anything that does not guarantee that we will have no interuption in any of the programs, now do I believe him, that is another story. We have cvoiced our opinions about everything and still they move forward. Alot of us are pretty sure that it is already a done deal and that they are just going through the motions. Even if that is so. We will fight this until we cannot anymore.
Ashley Virginia January 23, 2013 at 01:10 AM
We will stand up against this. We are tired of everyone telling us what is good for dundalk when they do not even live here. We will stand DUNDALK UNITED. and if you don't like it then get over and shut up!


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